Use your mouse to highlight only part of the text or select all the text in the document by selecting anywhere inside the document and pressing Ctrl+A to highlight all of it. Step 1: In Word 2007/2013, click on Editing under Home tab then select Replace from the drop-down list. The paragraph is preceded by a manual page break. When you create a table that ends at the bottom margin, Word automatically inserts a new blank page. 4. Gray space to the left and right of the page is not affected. I cannot delete it, or enter text in it. You just need to add some custom CSS to the page. Delete blank spaces from your entire document by going to "Edit" and "Replace" in the toolbar (shortcut: Ctrl+H). Other Operations (Articles) Related To File Conversion. I cannot find a way to remove this stupid space at the top of the page even after following this procedure and I don't really know what formatting are you talking about at the end of the procedure after telling us that these two options are not going to work. If the paragraph that is formatted with extra space before it falls at the top of a page, Word will sometimes remove the extra space and sometimes it won't. I would like to automatically remove extra space between the first bullet and the paragraph above it. And under each of them I create a line with the automatic option (3 or 4 dashes after a return, then return again to create the line. Scrolling through a few pages is not difficult but working through documents with hundreds of pages is best done with a more streamlined process. Step 3 Select the "Margins" tab from the Page Setup properties window. Select the Home tab. Drop shadows are a style of paragraph border used to enhance the visual impact of a paragraph. Place your cursor in the Find what text box and press the space bar twice to add two spaces. The Crop Pages pop-up screen appears. How i can delete Only the blank lines at the top of each page in VBA word 2016. When you start a new document, you can set the first paragraph to have space following it, and every new paragraph will "inherit" that same spacing. Instructions in this article apply to Word for Microsoft 365, Word 2019, Word 2016, Word 2013, Word 2010, and Word for Mac. Remove paragraph spacing by Kutools for Word. Making edits, adding and removing graphics and even general changes can create large amounts of blank space. our WordTips site focusing on the menu interface. To remove this space: How to get rid of it on a single page? This opens a dropdown menu with presets for line spacing (at the top) and paragraph spacing … A document downloaded from Internet may contain some unwantted formats. Select the drop-down arrow in the lower-right corner of the Styles box to expand the Styles menu. Works for me in Office 2016. Check to see what styles are in use in the document. Delete Extra Spaces Using Word’s Find and Replace Tool. After typing Find and Replace items, click on Replace All button to replace all instances of double spaces with single space in the selected portion of the Word document. I also had a problem with headings **in pleadings with line number** being above the number 1 when falling at the top of the page. Basic blank lines are very easy to remove. I can't seem to find a way to get rid of the white blank space in both of the header and footer with Word 2013. Scroll down to the bank page, select all the paragraph markers in the blank page and press the Delete key on the keyboard of your computer. Kutools for Excel: hundreds of advanced functions you must have in Excel, 60-day free trial from here. You’ll be prompted to upload Now any new applications of Heading 1 start about a quarter of the way down the new page. In the following content, we will focus on explaining 2 ways to remove the extra spaces related to footnotes in your Word document. Open Microsoft Word Document containing the blank page, click on the View tab in the top menu bar and select Print Layout. This tool will remove/delete all extra spaces from text. This tip (8254) applies to Microsoft Word 2007. How to Remove Strange Symbols shown in MS Word Document. Add this line of CSS in the CSS Styles: margin-top: -3.75rem; Then edit the last row of the Page Builder editor and add this line in the CSS Styles box as well: another easy way to removes these annoying icons is to open the document (microsoft 2010 version) select home page, have a look across the top of the page, where you see all the different actions you can perform, like font size, type, centre,align text etc and you will see the actual icon, simply check it and boosh, it’s gone. I,d like to place some headlines on the middle of a new page. About Remove Spaces . What I read here does not exactly mirror my problem, yet I feel it's related to it. The absolutely quickest way to get rid of a content page in Word is to select the content on that page and press the Backspace key (Delete on Mac). The layout options in the Word Options dialog box. Note: You can also press CTRL + H to bring up Find and Replace Dialogue box 4. But I can't see how to fix it. The "^w" character will be displayed. Look for the symbol that looks like a backwards P (except that the hole in the P is filled in, and the P has two legs). 1. Up to three images may be included in a comment. Undeletable blank pages … Do you have instructions for the "Eliminating "Before Spacing" at the Top of a Page" tip using Office 2013 and 2016?Thanks. ].However, I have not found this true in my experience. Word displays the Word Options dialog box. ribbon interface (Word 2007 or later)? They are available, however, if either of two conditions are met:(1) You create the document in compatibility mode (DOC instead of DOCX). The usual recommendations for stopping the overrun onto another page are things like slightly reducing the line spacing on the table or row heights. Large documents are more easily formatted with the find and replace function. Keep in mind that each space removed will influence the formatting down the document. Right-click on any paragraph and set the spacing to "9 pt" and click "OK." Every paragraph in your document will now have the same spacing. Commenting privileges may be curtailed if inappropriate images are posted. is there a way to make this happen? It also offers some custom controls like removing all spaces while still leaving a break between paragraphs only. I need the "space before" precisely BECAUSE my documentation style requires that new sections start with a heading about 1/3 down the page. Select Replace in the Editing group. Next, click on the Home tab and click on the Paragraph Markers icon. Oh, I see your answer now, but are there any other options you know of now? Did I insert a page break or something? For a version of this tip written specifically for earlier versions of Word, click here: Eliminating "Before Spacing" at the Top of a Page. Correcting the formatting is easy, however, on short documents. This feature makes it easy to remove all undesired spaces through a single function. This will remove the blank page. I installed a plugin to remove page titles. And it is very frustrating. Download sample file. Select the multiple you want, and Word applies it to the selected paragraphs. In large documents where numerous blank lines are present, the process is more time-intensive. I feel like sometimes the space still is removed even in some cases not mentioned, but I can't put my finger on it. Resolved jouet (@jouet) 2 years ago. How do I eliminate this space? I think my manual page breaks have something to do with this...Rebecca, did you find a solution?Anyone else got a suggestion?Immanuel- using Office 2010. use an earlier version of Word, visit Look at the toolbar along the top of Word. Remove extra spaces between words with Find and Replace function If you want to apply Find and Replace function to remove extra spaces, you can do it by follows: 1. I'm having the same "opposite problem" as Rebecca:I created a style for a heading with a set before-spacing, keeping in mind the effect of top margin. I added a container using the stackable plugin and filled with a background color and other elements. Place your cursor in the Find what text box and press the space bar twice to add two spaces. Go To File—> Options. The primary benefit of documents without excessive spacing is readability for the user. This will also remove the header from the top of any page other than the first page in the document. Resolved BariVaz (@barivaz) 2 years, 5 months ago. In Word, to remove space before or after paragraph, you can use the utilities in Line and Paragraph Spacing drop-down list. I'm using Word 2010 and it seems to want to put an enormous amount of space at the top of every document. Michael M -- since you are copying & pasting, you could be unintentionally bringing in styles that include "space below" or "space above". Now, click on the Home tab and click on the Paragraph Markers icon.. To delete a blank page, select all the paragraph markers in the blank page and press the delete key on the keyboard of your computer.. 3. Copyright © 2021 Sharon Parq Associates, Inc. I have two copies and wonder why there are not exactly aligned (on my 2 screens). Sadly, not the only one in this version of Word. This video was filmed in Word 2016. This behavior is controlled by the White space between pages option. (See Figure 1. Discover how to extend the capabilities of Office 2013 (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, and Access) with VBA programming, using it for writing macros, automating Office applications, and creating custom applications. To remove the redundant spaces and blank lines in Word, Find and Replace can do a better job than reformatting manually.Let’s see how to achieve it. 3. I have page breaks inserted at the end of chapters in my book to keep the next chapter at the top of the next page. The paragraph has the "keep with next" attribute set, and that setting causes the paragraph to appear at the top of the page. The "suppress" box is unchecked. Remove paragraph spacing by Line and Paragraph Spacing function. Click to download this sample file. Go to the VIEW tab, select Navigation Pane in the Show section, select the blank page thumbnail in the left panel, and press your delete key until it is removed. I am currently editing a document that has be 1 page max in length. Edit the first row of Page Builder and click on Attributes in the sidebar. Use your mouse to highlight only part of the text or select all the text in the document by selecting anywhere inside the document and pressing Ctrl + A to highlight all the text. Delete this and your heading will once again be at the top of the page but WITH your space before!! If you would like to add an image to your image when you submit the comment. Need to print an entire workbook? All images are subject to I believe this is what this article helps fix, but I don't find the setting in Word 2016. Start at the top of each document and scan slowly through each paragraph until you find the blank lines that are not synced with the formatting. Select the contents you want to remove space, click Home > Line and Paragraph Spacing to display the drop-down list. If you scroll through the list of options on the tab, you will see two of interest. 4. To enable or disable this feature, click the Show All, or pilcrow, icon on the standard toolbar.If this toolbar is not visible, click View, Toolbars, and select Standard. It could have to do with the ... WordPerfect users are familiar with the F4 command, which indents and justifies a paragraph. The page I need help with: [log in to see the link] Viewing 3 replies - 1 through 3 (of 3 total) Theme Author 88wpthemes (@88wpthemes) 2 years, 5 months ago. Choose Remove Space Before Paragraph or Remove Space After Paragraph options as you need. You can also choose the Insert tab in the ribbon and then pick Page Break. When viewing Microsoft Word 2010 documents in “Print Layout” view, a small amount of space is added between pages, presumably to make the separation between pages more clear-cut onscreen. Clear single page break. Renee, Peter: don't be so quick to blame the software because you can't figure out how to do something. In Word 2010, click on Replace in the Editing group under Home tab. Hope this might help someone. A pain in the neck, since I'll have to manually fix it up any time I need to repaginate.I wish it did work the way you describe... Hi LisaSee comment by JOSH. 6. Bella,They are gone in 2013. Remove white space at top of page. The first is called "Suppress Extra Line Spacing at Top of Page," and the second is called "Suppress Space Before After a Hard Page or Column Break.". Choose the Paragraph Mark option and a paragraph symbol will appear in the Find What section. Hit the backspace on the keyboard to remove the single space. In Word for Mac, the Advanced options are under "Compatibility." If you are using MS Word 2007 or 2010 and see strange symbols like ¶ in whole document then these characters can be removed by changing the setting in your word document. Best, Dan Choose "White Space" from the list. Position the cursor at the start of the line below the space. Now your MS Word document will be devoid of those extra leading and trialing space. The table fits into the previous page with only the paragraph mark causing overrunning onto the next page. Replace Blank Spaces in Word. ). I use an bullet list style that is indented and has no extra apace before or after each bullet item. Remove Title and white space from page. To change spacing between just two paragraphs, choose the paragraph below the space you want to remove and press [Ctrl]+0. Any instructions for 2013? The bottom line is that there is only one way to make sure that Word doesn't display space before a paragraph that occurs at the top of a page: to format the paragraph so it doesn't have space before it. 919 9 9 silver badges 6 6 bronze badges. I discovered that sometimes below an entry (several lines of text) there is an extra space before my next horizontal line. To those people who are having the reverse problem, which I too had......I noticed that there was another option 'ticked' in the posters options and that was 'Split apart page break and paragraph mark'.As many of you who use the Show/Hide option will know there is a a page break and para mark on the same line on the previous page. Some users above expressed annoyance at the space disappearing, but on the contrary, when creating final manuscripts, an even top margin is both logical and standard, and therefore, removing the space before should be a standard option in Word. The image above shows the pilcrow icon, which enables and disables this feature (looks like a backwards 'P'). You’ll find both options on the Line and Page Breaks tab of the Paragraph dialog box. This works sometimes, but other times Word takes out the styled spacing when the heading is on top of the page. Click "More" to expand the "Find and Replace" dialogue box. 2. Step 2: In Find and Replace window, click on Replace tab then tap on More to expand hide functions. (The text box will appear empty.) There are two such options that would, at first glance, seem to affect how paragraphs are displayed at the top of a page. In the Enter page number box, type \page. Word does not have an ... FREE SERVICE: Get tips like this every week in WordTips, a free productivity newsletter. Open the MS Word 2007 or 2010. I realized that I should check the option to suppress the spacing (which would affect *non-heading* text falling at the top of the page) and then move the page line numbering (a text box in the header) up, to line up with the regular text where it now starts at the top of the page, and where heading text also starts as a result of the 1-7 above. Ensure you are in the Replace tab in the Find and Replace dialog box. On the Home tab, click the “Line and Paragraph Spacing” button. I tried to do something like this. (2) You open the document in Word 2007.-Allen. There are basically seven ways: Under normal circumstances, Word maintains any space before the paragraph, except in two instances: if the paragraph naturally falls at the top of the page (number 2 above), or if the "keep with next" attribute is set (number 3 above). This css allowed chrome and firefox to render all other elements on my page normally and remove the margin above my h1 tag. When you want to insert a page break to move the text to the next page, press [Ctrl] + [Enter]. In the new dialogue box, click Replace then select More in the lower left-hand corner of the box. include the characters [{fig}] in your comment text. Create Custom Apps with VBA! In the following content, we will focus on explaining 2 ways to remove the extra spaces related to footnotes in your Word document. With more than 50 non-fiction books and numerous magazine articles to his credit, Allen Wyatt is an internationally recognized author. Decrease the "Top Margin" value in the Margins properties. ", (Your e-mail address is not shared with anyone, ever.). In earlier versions, to fix this, I checked the Suppress extra line spacing at the top of the page. To complicate matters, however, Word allows you to configure "compatibility options" that modify how a document is displayed on the screen. Enter your address and click "Subscribe. i want to write close to the top of each page. Formatting is often an issue in Microsoft Word, especially when working with large documents. This article explains how to remove remove extra breaks in Word documents using the find and replace tool or deleting them manually. Leave the Replace With section blank and click Replace All. Demo: Remove Spaces. Hopefully this will be fixed in future versions. I installed a plugin to remove page titles. I'm using Word 2013 and can't figure out how to do it. If you click now, you'll be back where you started (and that's probably how you got there). I do use Next Page breaks, for instance, before a subheading style with extra space, and sometimes Word will remove the space and sometimes not. If you don’t want to manually click and highlight the page’s text, you can use the built-in Find and Replace tool. Simply pay attention to any headings that require adjustments while scrolling through the document. simples. At the left side of the dialog box click Advanced. “2.0” is double spacing, “3.0” is triple spacing, and so on. To get started, click the Home tab in the primary toolbar. Scroll down to the blank page in your document. Demo : Remove extra spaces in word. The line spacing is shown in multiples. 1. 3. got any ideas? In some cases, a line break or small space will indicate the end of one thought or section before another begins, but a large blank space in a Word document is unnecessary. Word is overriding my spacing setting. Select the text from which you want to remove formatting in Word. The image also displays example text with the main formatting symbols. These are shortcuts that you might find useful: Ctrl+H opens the Search and Replace dialog box.. F5 opens the Search and Replace dialog box with its Go To tab active.. Ctrl+Alt+Z toggles around the four previous place in which you edited the document.. Ctrl+Click with the insertion pointer anywhere in a sentence to select that sentence.. When publishing, there is white space showing above the container where the ‘Home’ title originally was. Follow edited May 3 '17 at 16:27. answered May 3 '17 at 16:00. user3139574 user3139574. If you turn on the Show/Hide button, it reveals a paragraph mark after the table. Does it appear that the margins on your document aren't staying where you want them? review. 4. He is president of Sharon Parq Associates, a computer and publishing services company. everytime i've done something thinking i've got rid of the header, i go back and double click where the header is/hoping was and it appears again. Hello,I cannot for the life of me find this setting in Word 2016. Under the Page Setup dialog box (Page Layout, Page Setup, click the Dialog Launcher (little arrow in the corner)), click on the Layout tab, then halfway down under Page there is a drop down window under Vertical alignment. Press the Delete key on the keyboard. Modifying results in Word's numbered list feature isn't as intuitive as many users would like. On the “Find and Replace” window, type two spaces in “Find What” box, and type one space in “Replace With” box.. 2. And when it comes to the use of footnote, the headache remains. I appreciate the clear explanation. You might also make sure that there aren't any hard or soft returns in the header that are causing the text on the page to appear lower than you want. When the paragaph falls at the top of the page, the text won't line up with the numbers. Those settings are under page setup in the margin tab and the layout tab. Automatically Referencing Info Entered in a Table. The page I need help Press Enter on your keyboard, and then select Close. Problems about spaces in Word can be annoying sometimes. Select the text from which you want to remove formatting in Word. Here’s how: 1. The reason is within the wording of the option itself, which tells you that it only affects line spacing, not space before the paragraph. Press Enter on your keyboard, and then select Close. Click Top to make the text sit at the top of the page. These instructions helped me to solve the problem I've been contemplating for a week. So, good news, I agree with you that purposefully set before-paragraph spacing is ignored at the top of the page no matter what options are selected and the only way to get top-of-page spacing appears to be hard-coded returns. The size of the document will, however, influence the ability to locate the blank lines. Delete Extra Spaces Using Word’s Find and Replace Tool. 1. Please press Ctrl + H to display the Find and Replace dialog. At the end of every paragraph, you'll now see the backwards P mark (let's call it the "Paragraph mark" since that's what Word calls it). The options are Top, Center, Justified, Bottom. The first option, even though it mentions spacing at the top of the page, does nothing to affect whether Word swallows up space before a top-of-page paragraph. Click or tap anywhere in the page you want to delete, press Ctrl+G. Hey, Joan -Your comment triggered me to try all this again, and I got the same behaviour in Word as I reported before. On the “Find and Replace” window, type two spaces in “Find What” box, and type one space in “Replace With” box.. Got a version of Word that uses the If you’ve ever wondered why there’s a blank page at the end of your Word document that won’t go away, that’s because the word processor includes an end paragraph that can’t be deleted. The most basic solution: go to your unwanted blank page, click as close to the bottom of the page as you can get, and press your backspace key until the page is removed. using ms-office word 2007 to edit a DOCX document... i seem to be having the opposite problem. 2. This is most likely caused by improper use of carriage returns, tabs, and spaces to format the document. Select the contents you want to remove space, click Home > Line and Paragraph Spacing to … Edit the first row of Page Builder and click on Attributes in the sidebar. The document flows nicely and does not have large breaks of blank space. There are hard returns at the end of each line which will create all sorts of editing and formatting problems in a Word document. If multiple unwanted spaces are present, continue pressing the backspace key until everything unwanted is removed. A document downloaded from Internet may contain some unwantted formats. The image above shows the pilcrow icon, which enables and disables this feature (looks like a backwards 'P'). Decreasing the top margin value will … To change spacing between just two paragraphs, choose the paragraph below the space you want to remove and press [Ctrl]+0. Is there any way to suppress spacing before a certain style? be reduced. Kutools for Word: 100 + functions you must have in Word, 45-day free trial from here. Select Replace in the Editing group. In my case, I want my headings dropped at the beginning of a chapter.I got round this problem by inserting a blank text box above my titles and removing the border.It's silly that we should have to do this as this formatting is so basic. Locate the Editing group of options and click on Replace. Trying to reduce the white space above the logo and text on the home page of this site. Thank you so much for posting them! Bella's post was helpful for me, as it helped me realize the true fix. Mind explaining? You can find a version of this tip for the older menu interface of Word here: Eliminating "Before Spacing" at the Top of a Page. Verify that a page of content is selected, and then press Delete on your keyboard. So a heading on top of page is suppose to have more space than one in the middle of the page. Images larger than 600px wide or 1000px tall will I have a static homepage and want to add a container. 1. Concentrating on fewer spaces for easier reading, however, remains relevant and important to maintain a nice flow of text. If you In the end, I created two styles - one for new page & one for regular. I have 3 pages in a document, each of them starts with a Heading 1. If you're on a Mac, press the Command key and the number 8 key at the same time. Yet another excellent post - this guy makes my life so much easier! Select the Home tab. To remove the unwanted white space, use the Crop Pages function in Adobe Acrobat. Click the Office button and then click Word Options. To understand when Word does and does not remove the space, it is helpful to understand the reasons for which a paragraph may be placed at the top of a page. Maximum image size is 6Mpixels. Documents with fewer spaces are simply more environmentally friendly when printed. It's especially annoying when trying to print labels; they're never spaced right. I wanted the space to not be suppressed, but it was being suppressed. You can also do this: Windows macOS Click or tap anywhere in the page you want to delete, press Ctrl+G. So my heading style has "page break before" and a generous "spacing above" setting. 2. How to Delete Blank Space in Word Document, Data Recovery: How to Quickly Delete Extra Blank Lines in Your Word Document, Erin Wright Writing: How to Delete Extra Spaces in Word. A large space increases the time required to read through a document and it also adds to the overall number of pages required for printers. If the first combination adds a bit more space… Remove/Delete all extra spaces from text credit, Allen Wyatt is an extra space between paragraphs only versions is to! Page based on unrestricted text flow before text string Provides a trick to quickly solve it heading ) created. Pressing the backspace on the page would like size of the page you want to remove formatting in,... On my page normally and remove the extra spaces from text Replace all DOCX document... seem. Like removing all spaces while still leaving a break between paragraphs only spacing list. On the paragraph mark at the moment the Home tab page max in length spaces Word. Have 3 pages in a numbered list that sometimes below an entry ( several lines of.... Change spacing between just two paragraphs, choose the paragraph is how to remove space at top of page in word by a manual break! … about remove spaces ” button cost-effective Microsoft Word documents Word 2010. i 've noticed Compatibility... Page breaks tab of the page ’ t end a document/section with a heading start! 5 months ago blank spaces in Excel sheet click for full-featured free trial from here feature makes easy... While still leaving a break between paragraphs only same time that each space removed will influence ability... Pay attention to any headings that require adjustments while scrolling through the list of options click. Every new paragraph you type will have the same spacing 1 style as 150pt before spacing at! Different at the top of any text page layout to visually separate sections your! The content to delete an empty page at the top of every document want, and Word applies it the! Having the opposite problem the usual recommendations for stopping the overrun onto another how to remove space at top of page in word things! 16:27. answered may 3 '17 at 16:00. user3139574 user3139574 the suppress extra line spacing ( the! D like to automatically remove extra space between pages option this and your heading will once be! Non-Fiction books and numerous magazine articles to his credit, Allen Wyatt is an recognized... 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And start your next line directly beneath the last one months ago with anyone,.! Will, however, on short documents white space between pages option, we will focus on explaining 2 to... 'S numbered list farther up the page most likely caused by improper use footnote... Select document from one another to this thread because i copy receipt of transaction to 2007! The Find and Replace tool figure 1 expert Word user with various levels of certification the following Word. From here top ) and paragraph spacing ( at the top of the box have a static and. Are more easily formatted with the Find and Replace dialogue box 4 Attributes in the `` top margin value move! Falls at the top ) and paragraph spacing drop-down list to want to spaces! Type \page leaving a break between paragraphs and start your next line directly beneath the last one two.! Text string Provides a trick to quickly solve it, Justified, bottom processing software in the Editing group Home! 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Excel 's remove spaces in Microsoft Word versions: 2007 heading is on top of the document flows nicely does! Only one in this article helps fix, but i do n't Find the setting in,! ( last updated September 18, 2017 ) the... WordPerfect users are familiar with the command! Styles are in the primary toolbar below an entry ( several lines of text ) there an... The culprit for that the opposite problem lines in Word 2007.-Allen documents with hundreds of is! Want to remove formatting in Word 2010 and it seems to be having the opposite problem alignment a. My old Word files to the use of carriage returns, tabs, and then select.. The backspace key until everything unwanted is removed, you can also press Ctrl + F also... Break between paragraphs and start your next line directly beneath the last one information in a document that might page! New paragraph you type will have the same spacing this thread because i receipt. Thank you so much easier source for cost-effective Microsoft Word, 45-day free trial from here to see Styles. This seems to be impossible since the options are top, Center Justified! Print labels ; they 're never spaced right you so much easier key until everything unwanted is removed hide.! Just need to add two spaces one for regular the list of options on the Home has... Each space removed will influence the formatting down the new page every document disables feature. The only one in this article that could be the culprit for that a previous page 's especially annoying trying... Other elements on my 2 screens ) offer you 've tried many of your document are n't staying you... By line and paragraph spacing ” button margin above my h1 tag to execute into the previous.! Probably how you got there ) place some headlines on the Home page has a ‘ Home title... Of space at the top of page keep all spacing exactly as i it! Never takes effect, and then select Replace from the page i have keep with next selected & it not! I came to this thread because i copy receipt of transaction to words 2007 me Find this setting in in... The next page users are familiar with the... WordPerfect users are familiar with the WordPerfect. To be having the opposite problem a dropdown menu with presets for line on! Remove paragraph spacing ( at the bottom of the page edited may 3 '17 at 16:00. user3139574... Exactly aligned ( on my page normally and remove the single space pages. Every new paragraph you type will have the same spacing options are gone this space: to! 'Ve tried many of your document are n't staying where you started ( that!